Dolphin-emu.com vs shall not be named: why are there two?

**Xtreme2damax** · 05-07-2010, 03:01 AM **#31**

So what does the "fake" Mamario site have to offer over the official site and forum other than just looking a bit nicer? I think you don't realize just how wrong you are, the main site will host official compatibility lists, official faqs and other resources that are written by actual developers. Mamario is not a developer, no matter what anyone thinks he is. He us just another user like the rest of us that provides builds, builds that are no different than other members builds. The only advantage his builds have which may also be a downside is that he provides frequently updated builds that are compiled by an SVN build bot. If something breaks in the SVN code, users of his builds are SOL until the actual developers commit a fix. If the build is broken, Mamario is just wasting resources, space and bandwidth by compiling and hosting these broken builds. All unofficial builds should be tested before being uploaded for the general public to use.

schez · (This post was last modified: 05-07-2010, 03:55 AM by schez.)

(05-07-2010, 03:01 AM)Xtreme2damax Wrote: So what does the "fake" Mamario site have to offer over the official site and forum other than just looking a bit nicer? I think you don't realize just how wrong you are, the main site will host official compatibility lists, official faqs and other resources that are written by actual developers. Mamario is not a developer, no matter what anyone thinks he is. He us just another user like the rest of us that provides builds, builds that are no different than other members builds. The only advantage his builds have which may also be a downside is that he provides frequently updated builds that are compiled by an SVN build bot. If something breaks in the SVN code, users of his builds are SOL until the actual developers commit a fix. If the build is broken, Mamario is just wasting resources, space and bandwidth by compiling and hosting these broken builds. All unofficial builds should be tested before being uploaded for the general public to use.

I don't care what the main site "will" have some day, mainly because it just doesn't have it. If I am a developer I will jack around on the wiki @code google or on IRC for relevant stuff not on the main site of the emu nor emulator site, so keep it real. Both sites are useless for devs, and never meant to be different. Both sites were meant to be for regular ppl. The point is the main site only holds builds which are built only every once in a while - refered to as the "official ones". Besides that there is nothing else on the main site, no wiki, no compatibility list, no proper faq that would be helpful in any way to regular ppl, except the forum. And most ppl that use dolphin are ppl that either use dolphin for already quite some time or are new to it,former are aware of that that those SVN builds might break stuff or maybe not, and that is the majority.
Not that I would need his builds, but there are certain ppl that don't want to mess around with compilers(as well the majority) and still want to be up2date, either just out of curiosity or just to give feedback/debug on recent commits to devs. Claiming it's just a waste of whatever is pure polemic.

Summary: mamarios "fake" site doesn't just offer you svn builds, but at the same time it does help new and old users, by offering an up2date wiki/compatibility list/faq/news - not to mention that it has a way more pragmatic design.

That's the last thing ill issue on that topic, simply because i dont care as much and i already stated my opinion.

**Xtreme2damax** · 05-07-2010, 04:10 AM **#33**

Thing is, he isn't a developer so what does he know more than the actual developers do? If you want to rely on inaccurate or wrong information then that is your choice but I'd rather pay more attention to official documents and compatibility lists from those who actually know what they are doing and are more knowledgeable which would be the actual developers.

So far I've found nothing on the Mamario site that can't be found here, so I have to ask again what does it have to offer over the official site and forum other than looking a tad nicer? I'm sure this site and forum will be updated once the developers have the time, it can't be denied they are more busy and have less time than Mamario and most members do considering they are the ones actively improving the emulator.

Don't think I'm just targeting Mamario, I'm referring to all SVN discussions in general. I have no problem with members providing unofficial builds, what I do have a problem with is how SVN discussion is allowed to run rampant on the official forums and members are freely allowed to advertise unofficial builds. Official sites and forums have always been intended for official builds for a good reason, with those who provide unofficial builds expected to provide support elsewhere.

GundamQuatro · (This post was last modified: 05-07-2010, 05:31 AM by GundamQuatro.)

i like having official builds, but having official betas is also good, as you see pcsx2 r1888 official beta is slightly faster and better than the 0.9.6. Also, altho builds might be official, plugins are always up2date, in the form of SVN's, which in some way ''upgrade the official version'' as they're plugins that work for any version. That's what i like about pcsx2. The ability of having different plugins from different plugin coders, so that way they are focused on exactly one job, instead of doing the job of a compile machine, which is basically a waste of time since there are updated plugins.Of course the pre-alpha 0.9.7 provides it's own fixes, but the committing work of plugin coders is essential for pcsx2. I would like to have that sort of thing for dolphin too.

**NaturalViolence** · 05-09-2010, 03:58 AM **#35**

Ok I have always loved mamario's site because it gives the newbies valuable resources but now he has taken it to far. Behold: http://www.dolphin-emu.org/forum/

That's right. He made his own forum for his site, an exact copy of this one.

**Starscream** · (This post was last modified: 05-09-2010, 04:37 AM by Starscream.)

That's kinda lame. He should be shut down.

**James333** · (This post was last modified: 05-09-2010, 04:44 AM by James333.)

(05-09-2010, 04:35 AM)SS Starscream Wrote: That's kinda lame. He should be shut down.

I think the same , but he have the right to make his own forum ( actually me , cmccmc , nosound , Luis R14 and ssbbtriforce made a help forum , The idea was to make a help file for Dolphin , but ssbbtriforce dissapeared so the we never finished the project )

And he have a bug tracker, unless he made issues in google code based on the post I think is kinda useless

**Xtreme2damax** · (This post was last modified: 05-09-2010, 04:46 AM by Xtreme2damax.)

Reminds me of that dolphin shop debacle where the owner was demanded to surrender the domain, basically he was riding on the Dolphin name and using the dolphin logo to redirect people away from the official site, most likely for his own gain.

Here's the concerns that one of my staff members conveyed who is also a long time member of Ngemu and the emulation scene, all very valid points:

Quote:- More frequent WIP builds should have been posted. The only site that deserves any visits over dolphin news is dolphin-emu.com, not proxies or 'fansites'. Ideally, every WIP news would include an advisory about the experimental nature of svn builds, and a recommendation/links to the supported 2.0 stable recommended for 'gaming' (whereas svn is only for checking the latest experimental, untested code).

Sending people away from dolphin's home is a disservice. What prevents people from sharing, helping, contributing there (assuming they were not banned)?

Just the same, feedback should be shared mainly on the developer forum, and revision comments on Google Code.

Version numbers of any kind are milestones that are easily trackable and can be submitted for feedback by larger masses. They don't need to be ultra-stable or cutting edge either. There are far too many revisions, this encourages revision picking and diverging of build parameters, like by adding/changing/removing stuff from the vanilla source (it would be far easier to support a controlled small number of milestone releases than add the burden of needing to support every single revision. At the scale svn revision numbers reached, its simply not viable.

- Any files (screenshots, builds, etc) related to dolphin should be uploaded as attachments. Its been a very strict policy since ngemu, and continued at pcsx2.net . If related and not posted on approved webspace/added as attachment, don't bother linking to it (like outside of the project team's reach).

This also gets rid of the problem of those who use builds or compatibility lists to advertise external sites unrelated to the project.
You'll have noticed it became a literal race to the death for 'the latest builds'. It was anticipated to happen if the group didn't intervene to put a stop to it. It slowed a bit, but its still as nonsensical as before.
Either people should upload as attachments and stored on dolphin-emu, or not 'contribute'. It's easy to show support, and just as easy to show disrespect for a project. The project's forum is not an advertisement platform to send people away from it.

An added interest is that it encourages people to contribute to the actual project site, rather than 'setting fansites', 'paying homages', exploiting dolphin/dolphin-emu's name (cue at the "Dolphin Shop" and the first 'fake' dolphin site that was after contact redirected to the genuine dolphin-emu site), etc... It's dead easy to complain about things like compatibility, support and stuff. There are 2 ways to do things: contribute to the project, or disrupt.

The blatant violation of the no spam advertising rule in wikipedia has shed quite some light about an impersonating site, who was sneakily added in and claimed to be the project's website. Wikipedia's standards' sure have dropped big balls. Not long ago, pSX's article was deleted under the argumentation that it was 'not notable' and was referenced only by 'self-published sources'.

Back to Dolphin, most of all, non-team-provided builds have no place, either for mention or 'support'.
SVNs have always been under the same consideration as betas/alphas (other than they're not necessarily made available by the group): Works In Progress/Experimental. No complaining, try at your own risk, here's the latest stable build if you want to "play", rather than "check experimental, possibly extremely unstable code".
A rev could have perfect compatibility and the next one break all games and run none. Its not SVN for no reason. And its certainly not for none that snapshots of ongoing development are inappropriate for "playing".

So now that there is an official release, this peddling of SVN builds really needs to stop now, especially if being used to advertise external sites that redirect members away from contributing here. If builds are to be contributed, they are only to be posted as attachments on this forum and not used to advertise external unrelated sites. Builds are also only able to be posted after they've been granted approval by the developers, keeping a tighter leash and control on unofficial builds.

I do believe only the dolphin team should of stuck to providing unofficial builds at their discretion they deemed stable enough to play with, but not stable enough to be considered official (stable) builds. Furthermore, only one thread dedicated for unofficial builds and only by the Dolphin team themselves. The thread would contain frequent un(official) builds by the team, I think weekly or bi-weekly builds would be most appropriate. After all, members are given the option to compile themselves if they want to play with the latest code.

**Starscream** · 05-09-2010, 05:49 AM **#39**

The funny thing is that gundum is over there writing up tutorials and is trying to get his posts stickied on that site and is bragging that he is a long time knowledgeable member. What are you doing, GQ? I wouldn't be caught dead registering and posting over there. You look very foolish right now.

**Diddy Kong** · (This post was last modified: 05-09-2010, 05:56 AM by Diddy Kong.)

(05-09-2010, 05:49 AM)[SS] Starscream Wrote: The funny thing is that gundum is over there writing up tutorials and is trying to get his posts stickied on that site and is bragging that he is a long time knowledgeable member. What are you doing, GQ? I wouldn't be caught dead registering and posting over there. You look very foolish right now.

Agreed

Though I think mamario must have received consent for replicating an already existing forum.
Or is it the XL font that gives it its own value?

Edit:
Gundam, you could be held in contemt for this.
Plagiarism, really?