Building a media/dolphin PC

[etcetera]

Hi there,

Currently looking to build a media PC to connect to the TV and thought it'd be nice to run Dolphin off it too. I'm looking to use it to play videos (up to 4K), YouTube, web browsing. With Dolphin, I'll be wanting to play SMG titles, Xenoblade, Zelda.  

Couple options I'm exploring

1) Asrock Beebox-S or Intel NUC

Links to products:
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/boards-kits/nuc/kits/nuc7i3bnk.html
http://www.asrock.com/nettop/Intel/Beebox-S%20Series%20(Kaby%20Lake)/#Specifications

Pros:
Small form factor
Low power draw

Cons:
Both run a i3-7100u. I understand U series CPUs are terrible at emulation. Are Kaby Lake ones any better?
Expensive - both ~$300 USD off Amazon. NUC is $500 NZD, Beebox-S not yet available in my country (New Zealand).

2) Asrock DeskMini 110
Link: http://www.asrock.com/nettop/intel/Deskmini%20110%20Series/index.asp#Feature

Pros:
Flexibility in CPU selection
Cheaper - about $250 NZD for the barebones unit. Plus another $80-160 depending on CPU

Cons:
Larger form factor

With both systems I'll be looking to put in 8gb RAM and a 250gb SSD.

Question 1
How powerful is the i3-7100u? Will it be able to run the above games at 1080p @ 60fps, or if not what can it manage?

Question 2
If the i3-7100u is garbage, I'll be looking at the DeskMini. I'm stuck between the Pentium G4560 or i3-7100 for the CPU. They look very similar in specs but the i3 is nearly twice the price. Is the i3 significantly better and enough to justify the price? I heard the i3 has AVX instructions, not sure what that is but from reading it seems to have nothing to do with gaming.

Thanks in advance.

[Helios]

Is building a system yourself an option you're considering? With that NUC you're not going to be setting the internal resolution in Dolphin much beyond 2x without choking the GPU.

The G4560 will run Dolphin's JIT flawlessly on pretty much every game I can think of and would be significantly better than the i3-7100u. Don't worry about the lack of AVX. Won't make that much of a difference.

Of course, my initial point about the GPU being an issue still stands. Intel GPUs with the exception of the higher end Skylake and later and Iris Pro can't really push Dolphin reliably at 1080p. A GTX 1050 could though, but obviously that wouldn't fit in a NUC.

[etcetera]

(05-14-2017, 10:08 AM)Helios Wrote: Is building a system yourself an option you're considering? With that NUC you're not going to be setting the internal resolution in Dolphin much beyond 2x without choking the GPU.

The G4560 will run Dolphin's JIT flawlessly on pretty much every game I can think of and would be significantly better than the i3-7100u. Don't worry about the lack of AVX. Won't make that much of a difference.

Of course, my initial point about the GPU being an issue still stands. Intel GPUs with the exception of the higher end Skylake and later and Iris Pro can't really push Dolphin reliably at 1080p. A GTX 1050 could though, but obviously that wouldn't fit in a NUC.

If by building you mean getting a case mobo etc then probably not. Trying to minimize costs and the DeskMini is the cheapest option available. If you've got any suggestions I'd be happy to look through. 

Re: discrete GPUs - probably can't budget for one, since I'll need to build. If the G4560 can run at least at native resolution smoothly I'd be happy. Btw what's JIT? and is the i3-7100 worth it compared to the G4560?

[Helios]

The JIT is also known as a recompiler. It's the CPU "core" of dolphin that translates from PowerPC code (what the GC and Wii used) to your host system's architecture. This matters for game speed. A GPU matters if you want to increase the internal resolution in Dolphin. I've only seen Intel HD GPUs handle 1x-2x consistently.


Actually... Now that I think about it, you might want to get the i3-7100 (not the ULV one). Reason being is that the 7100 has an HD 630 GPU, and the G4560 has an HD 610. Since most people who buy the G4560 pair it with a dedicated GPU, that doesn't matter. Since you're not, you'll actually need that better GPU that the 7100 has.

[TKSilver]

In terms of relative performance if the G4560 is used as a base then the 7100u is about 2/3 as powerful and the 7100 itself is about 10% more powerful. (Intel really cannibalized their lower end line up with the G4560) So for flat out CPU performance ... no twice the price for 10% more performance is kinda silly.

For GPU performance you are talking about twice the execution units in the GPU and roughly (depends on the exact circumstances) twice the GPU performance. So twice the price for twice the GPU performance is still kinda silly since cards like the RX 550 exist new and lots of choices used that would offer much better performance.... but in this case it is probably a good choice.

AVX/SSE4.1/SSE4/SSE3/ect/ect are only really important if it is a requirement to run a program. If it is a hard requirement then you better at least have it. As far as will it make "X" Game/Emulator faster... maybe. To be honest the general IPC (instructions per clock) gains that newer chips bring will probably make a lot more difference as long as it is not a hard requirement.

[GreenT]

(05-14-2017, 01:37 PM)Helios Wrote: Actually... Now that I think about it, you might want to get the i3-7100 (not the ULV one). Reason being is that the 7100 has an HD 630 GPU, and the G4560 has an HD 610. Since most people who buy the G4560 pair it with a dedicated GPU, that doesn't matter. Since you're not, you'll actually need that better GPU that the 7100 has.

I just tested out how the HD630 handles Dolphin a few days ago. Read post #4 in this thread for info.

Etcetera -- If the Pentium G4620 is an option for you, and the HD630 graphics are suitable for what you want to do, it would probably save money vs. an i3.

[etcetera]

(05-15-2017, 12:57 AM)GreenT Wrote: I just tested out how the HD630 handles Dolphin a few days ago. Read post #4 in this thread for info.

Etcetera -- If the Pentium G4620 is an option for you, and the HD630 graphics are suitable for what you want to do, it would probably save money vs. an i3.

Cheers. The G4620 isn't available in New Zealand yet. My partner's heading to china in a couple days though, maybe she can have a look for me there...

Thanks for the heads up. Didn't think to look for Pentiums with HD630

[nonstatik]

I'm in the exact same dilemma as the OP and narrowed myself down to roughly the same options.  Low-power is also very important for me because electricity is expensive here in Germany and I plan to have this as a 24/7 living room media machine.  I'm personally leaning towards i3-7100T as it will use less power than the 7100 with only a small performance hit.  

An important issue I've discovered is that most mobo's (DeskMini included) will not post with Kaby Lake without a BIOS update, meaning you need an earlier generation CPU just to update the BIOS.  You will need to look at the mobo CPU compatibility list to make sure you know what you're getting into (btw the DeskMini uses the H110M-STX, which you could also purchase separately with a mini-STX case to save a couple more bucks).

To me, the DeskMini is still really tiny (check some videos on youtube with someone holding it).  However, for me, less noise is more important than size so I'm willing to consider a thin mini-ITX + fanless case.  Even if I went with mini-STX, I'd replace the noisy stock fan with a Noctua NH-L9i which is the only decent fan that can fit in a case that small.

For the OP, if you're looking at NUC's and can stretch your budget a little, then the Baby Canyon NUC would give you the best performance with i5-7260U + Iris Plus 640 graphics.  It's the best price/performance ratio you'll get with a 15w CPU, roughly equivalent to the 35w i3-7100T in both single-thread and GPU benchmarks (the Baby Canyon i3 is not worth it and the i7 is too expensive).  The performance of the i3-7100U does not look good to me for the cost, you'd be better off with the mini-STX build for that budget.  

[degasus]

It is likely worth to check for a nvidia 1030. There are passiv cooled devices available.

[etcetera]

(05-26-2017, 08:07 PM)nonstatik Wrote: I'm in the exact same dilemma as the OP and narrowed myself down to roughly the same options.  Low-power is also very important for me because electricity is expensive here in Germany and I plan to have this as a 24/7 living room media machine.  I'm personally leaning towards i3-7100T as it will use less power than the 7100 with only a small performance hit.  

An important issue I've discovered is that most mobo's (DeskMini included) will not post with Kaby Lake without a BIOS update, meaning you need an earlier generation CPU just to update the BIOS.  You will need to look at the mobo CPU compatibility list to make sure you know what you're getting into (btw the DeskMini uses the H110M-STX, which you could also purchase separately with a mini-STX case to save a couple more bucks).

To me, the DeskMini is still really tiny (check some videos on youtube with someone holding it).  However, for me, less noise is more important than size so I'm willing to consider a thin mini-ITX + fanless case.  Even if I went with mini-STX, I'd replace the noisy stock fan with a Noctua NH-L9i which is the only decent fan that can fit in a case that small.

For the OP, if you're looking at NUC's and can stretch your budget a little, then the Baby Canyon NUC would give you the best performance with i5-7260U + Iris Plus 640 graphics.  It's the best price/performance ratio you'll get with a 15w CPU, roughly equivalent to the 35w i3-7100T in both single-thread and GPU benchmarks (the Baby Canyon i3 is not worth it and the i7 is too expensive).  The performance of the i3-7100U does not look good to me for the cost, you'd be better off with the mini-STX build for that budget.  

Thanks for that. Strange that a guy on Amazon posting a review of the DeskMini saying his i3-7100 worked with it out of the box. Will definitely check with Asrock before buying.