Building a Dolphin rig in the fall/winter. + Nvidia shield and General questions.

[Edwii]

(08-18-2013, 12:41 PM)NaturalViolence Wrote: 1. God damn that's nice.
2. Scale the images down next time so they fit. I had to save all of the images so that I could view them with an image viewing application that scales them to fullscreen.
3. I see a white vent to the bottom left of the PC. Is this the other vent you were talking about? And there is likely a vent directly behind the A/C unit. I also think what I see on the right hand side of the window is another set of vents.
4. The room despite being beautiful is fairly stuffed. Where are you going to put this massive rackmount system? It looks like if you were to put it in front of either of the two vents I mentioned above you would block one of the two doors (one of those is probably a closet by the looks of it but none the less you still probably need access to it).

Edit: Much better.

1. Thank you kindly. It was built for a more sad reason tho. I was in a motorcycle crash 4 years ago, and coming home in a wheel chair I never thought I would have a life out side of the house. With a lot of work I made a pretty good recovery but life is still at a stand still.

3. Yes the vent on the left would be the vent I'm considering. The only other "vent" is the hole in the wall used for the A/C exhaust.

4. It's super stuffed. the rack mount would replace the cabinet. so it would take up around the same amount of room, more or less.

[NaturalViolence]

Where does that vent lead?

[Edwii]

(08-18-2013, 03:16 PM)NaturalViolence Wrote: Where does that vent lead?

It has a filter on it, so I'm pretty sure it's an air intake for the furnace, when i went down to the furnace room there is a square vent pipe going up to the area it's in. So, I'm pretty sure that's what it is.
I also feel like it also might go up to the attic/roof, for intake, tho can't be sure at this point. I know for sure it's not a furnace radiating vent.

[NaturalViolence]

Well be sure. I want to know where it goes and what direction it goes to know if this could even work effectively. Also getting enough airflow through the rackmount system could be tricky.

I still think this idea of yours is really over the top. But I want to see if it would even work well first.

Here is part 2 in the meantime:

Edwii Wrote:◘Overclocking:
I've decided that there isnt much reason not to OC to an average-above average level. I will be aiming to go with an OC to a is respectable level with out putting unnecessary wear and tear on the components. So pushing it to see what it can do with out trying to squeeze out it's absolute max, if that makes sense?

Yes. The normal overclock for an i5 4670K is 4.2-4.3GHz. It should be pretty easy to achieve.

Edwii Wrote:◘CPU:
I am pretty sure I'm going with the i5 4670k at this point, but if I change my mind again to go with the i7 4770k at this point, I dont think it's going to make a big impact on the over all build for my general goals?

It won't make any difference for emulation. It won't make a significant difference in PC games. It will speed up video and image encoding/processing considerably though. What types of applications are you going to be running on this thing?

Edwii Wrote:◘Ram: I still have a rudimentary understanding of ram.
I've been hearing two main stances on what ram to use:
-One side says go with 1600, any thing more is basically pointless.
-The other says that going higher is better for stable overclocking.

I guess I would lean more towards category 1. There really isn't any point going higher than 1600MHz because you don't gain any additional performance. There are lots of benchmarks out there to back this up. And no going higher does not help make your cpu OC more stable. It will either have no effect or it will make it less stable.

Edwii Wrote:Ram seems to be almost the same price no mater what it's speed is (1600 1866 2133). So if the mother board is compatible, why not go with higher?

Originally there was a big difference in price between DDR3 1333 MHz and DDR3 1600MHz. As ram IC technology got better higher frequencies became easier to hit with better yields. And thus prices fell to the point where 1600MHz ram cost the same. When I built my rig DDR3 1866MHz was still significantly more expensive than DDR3 1600MHz. This is no longer the case either as DDR3 1866 MHz prices have now fallen too. However anything above 1866MHz is still significantly more expensive. Especially the low voltage models. I would recommend DDR3 1866MHz ram is you can get it for the same price as 1600MHz ram these days. But don't go higher than that because there is no reason to spend more on ram.

Edwii Wrote:-I made a parts list on PcPartPicker, and it had this notice at the bottom:
"G.Skill Trident X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-2133 Memory operating
voltage of 1.6V exceeds the Intel Haswell CPU recommended maximum of
1.5V+5% (1.575V). This memory module may run at a reduced clock rate to
meet the 1.5V voltage recommendation, or may require running at a
voltage greater than the Intel recommended maximum."
Would that mean I should choose some slower ram, ram that doesn't need 1.6?

Yes. Get ram that runs at 1.5v. That's the recommended voltage for haswell cpus. If you get a 1.6v or 1.65v module you have two choices. Either overclock the IMC to run at the voltage and frequency that the ram is rated at. Or underclock the IMC to run at a lower frequency and voltage lower than what the ram is rated at. Paying for DDR3 1866 MHz ram only to end up running it at 1600MHz or 1333MHz is stupid. And overclocking the IMC while it will work may reduce the lifespan of the cpu. So it's best to just stick with 1.5v modules.

Edwii Wrote:-Also Is 2 sticks of 8 better then 4 sticks of 4? Is there much of a differnce between 2x8 and 4x4?

The only difference besides cost is that with only 2 modules you still have 2 empty slots left on your motherboard which makes adding more ram in the future cheaper. Having more modules also puts more electrical load on the IMC but it's not significant so don't worry about it. By the time you need more ram DDR4 will likely be cheap so I don't think it really matters in your case which you choose.

Also I would save some money and get 8GB instead of 16GB if I were you.

Edwii Wrote:The other thing a few people have said is that it is important that all the components have matching frequencies for overclocking? I'm not totally sure what they mean by that, and I'm not sure if they were talking about older hardware or if it applies to me?

I'm pretty sure what they meant was to make sure all of your ram modules are rated for the same frequency, latencies, and voltage. And ideally from the same brand. In other words don't mix and match different ram kits. It's not critical though. The system will still work with different ram modules in different sockets. It just might have to lower the frequency and latency. Which likely won't have any effect on performance so it's not a big deal. The one thing you don't want to do is mix modules rated at different voltages. That could in theory stop your system from booting up until you remove one of the kits. Depending on which order you install the kits in you might be able to fix this by just tweaking the UEFI settings.

Also since you usually only buy 1 ram kit when you start off this doesn't really become an issue until (if) you upgrade down the road by adding a second ram kit. So if you buy a 2x4GB kit now and decide to add another one down the road buy the same kit again. It's not the end of the world if you don't but it's more ideal.

Edit (Part 3):

Edwii Wrote:◘Motherboard:
Once determine what speed of ram is right for me, and any other factors that would put requirements on the motherboard, my main concern in what a mobo has to offer is its ability to regulate the systems power depending on the demand.
I often leave my PC on all day to stream video from it or let something download. Leaving it over clocked under those loads consumes extra power and adds stress to the components, but going to the effort of turning down the clock is time consuming.
I know there is technology that would auto adjust the clock/power depending on what the PC is doing, is it universal over all mother boards or is it something I need to specifically look for?

As far as power consumption is concerned pretty much all z87 boards have at least 8 phase power regulation. And anything past that produces barely measurable improvements.

Generally when we overclock PCs we simply leave them overclocked all the time since for most people the extra power consumption and heat isn't a big deal. And the system will still last long enough where they'll end up upgrading it before the parts die (5+ years).

You could adjust the turbo boost (P-state) settings though fairly easily on almost any motherboard to do what you're thinking about doing.

Edwii Wrote:Based on peoples suggestions and reviews: Can you please give me your opinion on these first choices for a [url=www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131989&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=]Motherboard[/url] and Ram ?

Just post the URL next time. Modern web browsers will automatically recognize it as a hypertext link anyways so there is no need to use url tags. And it stops the url links from breaking inside quotes.

Based on what you've told me so far I think both of those are overkill for your needs.

Edwii Wrote:PSU is about 2years old.

Well how much load was it under? You mentioned your system is on all day. How much power did it consume at idle and at load? And how often was it under load?

2 years is about how long lower end PSUs last especially when under load.

Edwii Wrote:For the next PSU, Do I need to look for one that is "Haswell compatible"?

Not necessarily. Do you plan on putting your PC into sleep mode?

Edwii Wrote:I took your advice, and that place is super handy for making a shopping list.

Send me the list when you're done with your first draft please.

Edwii Wrote:Here is a video walkthrough of the wood case(2:54): http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla...59HY&t=174
and some good pictures of a set up here: http://www.legitreviews.com/nmediapc-htp...ase_1114/4

Alright according to that review you linked the height clearance is 140mm. And it looks like the height is the only issue. There seems to be plenty of room for width/depth correct?

Yeah we should easily be able to find a cooler that will meet these dimensions and still provide sufficient performance and reasonably low noise levels.

Edwii Wrote:It's not much but if you can think of a modest game on like steam or something, let me know and I'll try and gift it to you.

If something goes on sale I'll let you know .

I'll send you a list of recommended parts when you're done asking preliminary questions if you want.

[CryZENx]

go for GTX 760 its already enough for 1920x1080 gaming and i5 4670k, i5 4670k vs i7 4770k has only small differents.. maybe 1-2 fps
i bought the i74770k only for rendering videos not for gaming, if i would play only i would go aswell to i5 like 2500k or 4670k

[Edwii]

Quote:What types of applications are you going to be running on this thing?
Also I would save some money and get 8GB instead of 16GB if I were you.

►Something I forgot to mention from the start; I run one last piece of hardware, a Video Capture card (Intensity Pro: http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/intensity/techspecs ). I use it to feed cable tv into the computer so I can watch TV at the same time I run programs/play games.
I got it because it's suppose to support 1080/HDMI, I've seen people on you tube demo PS3 game play using it showing it can do 1080. No mater what I do I can't get it to play anything beyond 1080 from the cable box(encrypted by provider?), I tested a wii once and worked*480, but nothing else, and never got it to play 1080 from the cable box.
I mention this for a few reasons: * I realize capture cards aren't exactly the most common piece of hardware, so it's understandable if there isn't much to say.
1. To be aware that I do run this at the same time I play some types of games, but some games wont be very smooth if i try and do both at the same time.
- So would having more then 8gb ram or using the I7 or using 2gb/4gb on the VGA have a noticeable improvement?
2. Tho the card is able to play 480 tv on the PC, I really want higher then 480. If you have any suggestions for a better capture card, please let me know.

►Things I mostly do on my PC:
1. Play Games,(duh)
2. Watch Videos: Blurays/Video Files.
3. I leave my PC on to watch the video files via wifi network on my laptop.
4. Download/Torrent
[color=#009900]NOTE[/color]: [color=#006600]3-4, are the only times I leave my computer running if I'm not actually on it. Otherwise I do my best to keep it shut off. Most of the time when I'm awake and at home I leave it on. I shut it off when I go to bed, tho some times I like to play 5.1 rain tracks when I'm sleeping.[/color]
5. Stream video to my soon to arrive Nvidia Shield.
*I may start streaming video to my laptop via "Splashtop" if my new PC can do it with less lag then my current one.
6. Brows the web. (duh again)
7. Light hobby grade use of Photoshop/illustrator. (not to be catered to during the build)
8. Something I might do, but still don't know enough about it, is use "ram disk" if that would be something I would benefit from for my purposes?


PSU trouble shooting:

Quote:1.Well how much load was it under?
2.You mentioned your system is on all day.
3.How much power did it consume at idle and at load? And how often was it under load?

1.I don't really know how to answer any of that, or what the proper way to test it is.
2+3.Answered in the "[color=#009900]NOTE[/color]" in the last section

"Haswell compatible"?

Quote:Not necessarily. Do you plan on putting your PC into sleep mode?

I don't really know of a good reason why I would, do you?

Quote:Send me the list when you're done with your first draft please.

http://pcpartpicker.com/user/Edwii/saved/#savedbuild_513145
I haven't included Motherboards yet because there's still to many to pick from.

Here are three mobos I am considering:
1. I like it because of the "sonic radar", it's kinda cool, maybe a gimmick. It's got it's own RAM Disk support(not sure if it's something I'll use or not?) and it seems to have a good audio system?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131989&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=
Gigabyte wasn't on my radar but then I found they are putting some level of built in headphone amp on these next two boards:
*Note: I had to go to Gigabyte's website to find this out, but it says it supports 1333,1600ram, but then it lists like all the others but with "(O.C.)" beside it, not sure if that is a concern or not? I found it hard to believe that boards in this price range cant support 1866.
2. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128592&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=
3. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128617&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=
(All three compared)
◘Good headphone power is a feature I wouldn't mind having, I definitely can live with out it, but if there is no other feature to look for, then why not right?
◘To restate what I've said before, I have no immediate need to SLI right now, but I want to keep it as a option in the future, Not sure if there would be a concern with that with any of these boards?

►Something I haven't really asked before is "When to buy"?
◘So far this build is getting more affordable the more I know, but I am in no rush to buy it all yet. Tho things do seem "affordable" right now, are there going to be seasonal sales worth waiting for? (back2school, thanksgiving, black-friday, xmas, etc?)
◘Is there anything on my parts(that you approve of) that is like "that's a great deal buy it before it's too late"?
Looking forward to your reply as always.

[NaturalViolence]

Part 1:

I still have one unanswered question:

NaturalViolence Wrote:I want to know where it goes and what direction it goes to know if this could even work effectively. Also getting enough airflow through the rackmount system could be tricky.

Edwii Wrote:I got it because it's suppose to support 1080/HDMI, I've seen people on you tube demo PS3 game play using it showing it can do 1080. No mater what I do I can't get it to play anything beyond 1080 from the cable box(encrypted by provider?), I tested a wii once and worked*480, but nothing else, and never got it to play 1080 from the cable box.

1. "Beyond 1080p" and "at 1080p" are two different things.
2. The wii only goes up to 480p anyways.
3. The encryption your provider uses is on the cable line. Not the HDMI output. HDMI does have a standard encryption system called HDCP (high bandwidth digital content protection) that can be enabled/disabled by the source device. The cable box might just be turning it on when it detects an HD channel.
4. Video games whether they be on PC or consoles don't use HDCP.

The capture card cannot decrypt HDCP. So check if the cable box is providing an hdcp signal.

How old is the cable set top box and what model is it?

Edwii Wrote:I mention this for a few reasons: * I realize capture cards aren't exactly the most common piece of hardware, so it's understandable if there isn't much to say.

You have a very expensive/good one so it's unlikely that the card is at fault. It's either a software issue or an issue with the set top box.

Edwii Wrote:1. To be aware that I do run this at the same time I play some types of games, but some games wont be very smooth if i try and do both at the same time.
- So would having more then 8gb ram or using the I7 or using 2gb/4gb on the VGA have a noticeable improvement?

This would use almost no video ram. Very few games can use more than 1GB of video ram at 1080p. And none can use more than 2GB. As far as main memory is concerned very few games use more than 2GB and none use more than 3GB. 4GB is still enough for PC gaming even with other applications running in the background. That might change to 8GB soon. But 16GB should still be a long way off.

I don't know how much memory and cpu/gpu throughput the video encoder for this is using. It looks like certain parts of the codec are hardware acceleration and certain parts aren't. Could you take some readings with task manager for me the next time you do this?

Edwii Wrote:2. Tho the card is able to play 480 tv on the PC, I really want higher then 480. If you have any suggestions for a better capture card, please let me know.

Have you tried using component input instead of hdmi? Does your STP (set top box) support HD resolutions over component?

No capture card can capture an HDCP signal so either we resolve this problem with your current hardware or we don't.

Edwii Wrote:*I may start streaming video to my laptop via "Splashtop" if my new PC can do it with less lag then my current one.

That sounds like a network issue not a local hardware issue.

Edwii Wrote:8. Something I might do, but still don't know enough about it, is use "ram disk" if that would be something I would benefit from for my purposes?

In my experience it's never really been worth the hassle. Especially if you already have an SSD.

Edwii Wrote:1.I don't really know how to answer any of that, or what the proper way to test it is.

Well:
1. How often was it on?
2. How often was it running stressful software?
3. How much power does it use under load (use a power calculator like the one I showed you earlier, or at least I think I showed you one earlier)?

Edwii Wrote:I don't really know of a good reason why I would, do you?

Some people prefer to put their desktop to sleep instead of shutting it down because resuming from sleep is a lot faster than booting up. And the power consumption, noise level, and heat are all low enough in sleep mode where they might not necessarily care.

It is uncommon with desktops though.

Anyways the haswell psu issue that you mentioned earlier deals with the new lower power "deep sleep" (c6 state) mode added in haswell to replace regular sleep mode (c3 state). When using an older PSU with UVP (under voltage protection) if you put the system to sleep with deep sleep enabled in the UEFI the low voltage will trip the UVP circuits in the PSU and trigger a system hard reset. Older equipment wasn't designed to run at such low voltages and thus PSUs were designed back in the day to cut power completely if the voltage dropped below operating values to prevent damage. An older PSU that isn't designed for haswell has no way of knowing that haswell is capable of operating at such low voltages. Newer PSUs have lowered the threshold voltage for the UVP circuits to fix this issue.

This issue will not effect you if you don't use sleep mode which is why I asked. If you are using sleep mode you have two solutions:
1. Get a haswell certified psu. Most newer psus are haswell certified.
2. Or go into the UEFI setup and disable deep sleep. Use regular sleep mode instead. Most haswell desktop motherboards default to regular sleep (c3) anyways so you might not even have to do this.

Edwii Wrote:1. I like it because of the "sonic radar", it's kinda cool, maybe a gimmick.

Sonic rader?

Edwii Wrote:It's got it's own RAM Disk support(not sure if it's something I'll use or not?) and it seems to have a good audio system?

Most motherboard manufacturers are beginning to include ramdisk applications with the drivers. It's easy to find free ramdisk applications though so it's not really a big deal.

Edwii Wrote:Gigabyte wasn't on my radar but then I found they are putting some level of built in headphone amp on these next two boards:

A lot of motherboard manufacturers are beginning to do this with their higher end boards. Including asus, asrock, gigabyte, msi, and biostar.

Edwii Wrote:*Note: I had to go to Gigabyte's website to find this out, but it says it supports 1333,1600ram, but then it lists like all the others but with "(O.C.)" beside it, not sure if that is a concern or not? I found it hard to believe that boards in this price range cant support 1866.

They support every ram speed listed there. And probably more. It's normal for anything above 1600MHz to be listed as OC because you have to overclock the IMC to reach anything above 1600MHz. The IMC is calibrated around JEDEC specifications. JEDEC (joint electron device engineering council) is the trade organization and standardization body that is responsible for most of the memory standards used in PCs for the last 2 decades. They're a group of industry experts from various companies that agree upon standards to set for future technologies so that all of the products are calibrated to work together. They came up with the DDR3 memory standards and when they did they only listed up to 1600MHz in the specs. Why? Because they didn't think anything higher than that could be made cost effective. Well they were wrong. But Intel never bothered to change their IMC calibration so it's still designed around the JEDEC specs. They instead created XMP (extreme memory profiles) to allow memory to be rated at speeds outside of the range defined by JEDEC and operate at those speeds via IMC overclocking (which is perfectly normal). The XMP profile lists the latencies, voltage, and frequency that the ram is rated at and is actually stored on the memory module (the ram stick) itself. You simply have to load the XMP profile on the ram in the UEFI setup and it will automatically overclock everything to the settings that the ram kit was rated at. This allows everyone to claim that they are following the JEDEC industry standard specifications (which only go up to 1600MHz) while simultaneously allowing memory to be easily rated and run at higher speeds than JEDEC specifications as long as they list them as overclocked settings (outside JEDEC range). Both the IMC and ram are capable of operating well outside the boundaries of the JEDEC specifications. They just can't allow the hardware to default to those higher settings for legal reasons because then they are breaking the JEDEC standards.

Edit:
Part 2:

Edwii Wrote:http://pcpartpicker.com/user/Edwii/saved...ild_513145
I haven't included Motherboards yet because there's still to many to pick from.

I would knock the ram down to 8GB and the SSD down to 128GB if you can. I would also get the 840 pro instead of the 840.

Go ahead and bump the 770 up to 4GB. If it's only an extra $50 you might as well.

Edwii Wrote:Here are three mobos I am considering:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...38566&SID=
2. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...38566&SID=
3. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...38566&SID=
(All three compared)

The gigabyte boards are cheaper and have PCI slots. The Asus board has better audio via an included sound card.

Edwii Wrote:◘Good headphone power is a feature I wouldn't mind having, I definitely can live with out it, but if there is no other feature to look for, then why not right?

Well the first thing you have to decide is if you want to use high end integrated audio (realtek ALC1150, x-fi MB 3, or supreme fx) or a sound card (asus xonar, ht omega claro, or creative labs z series).

Edwii Wrote:◘To restate what I've said before, I have no immediate need to SLI right now, but I want to keep it as a option in the future, Not sure if there would be a concern with that with any of these boards?

Nope. All z87 boards are compatible with SLI. The only other issues are power, space and cooling. Your PSU will be strong enough to handle it. Your case is likely big enough to handle it. Although the extra heat might be an issue for you. SLI rigs put out A LOT of heat.

Edwii Wrote:►Something I haven't really asked before is "When to buy"?
◘So far this build is getting more affordable the more I know, but I am in no rush to buy it all yet. Tho things do seem "affordable" right now, are there going to be seasonal sales worth waiting for? (back2school, thanksgiving, black-friday, xmas, etc?)

Well your definition of affordable is a lot higher than most. I certainly couldn't afford any of this stuff. Most people would shit themselves if I told them to spend $1,500 on a desktop computer. Hell most people here refuse to pay $500 to make their system fast enough for dolphin because it's too expensive.

The seasonal sales you listed all exist but they are generally not to significant and you never know what is going to be on sale and what isn't. So I don't advice waiting for them unless you're really thorough about penny pinching.

Edwii Wrote:◘Is there anything on my parts(that you approve of) that is like "that's a great deal buy it before it's too late"?

Not really. Prices don't generally have large temporary fluctuations in this industry. Normally the price stays the same until something better comes along.

Edit 2: I forgot to mention the seasonic PSU like most recent PSUs support deep sleep. Here: http://techreport.com/review/24897/the-big-haswell-psu-compatibility-list
Edit 3: Apparently supreme fx by asus are just rebranded realtek chipsets. The latest one is based off the ALC1150 chipset with some upgraded opamps. High end discrete card > midrange discrete card/asus supreme fx > asus supremefx impact > creative soundcore 3D/asus supreme fx > realteak ALC1150 > low end discrete card/realtek ALC 898 > realtek ALC892 > realteak ALC887
Edit 4: Found out what sonic radar is. That seems kind of gimmicky and cheap. It would break immersion.
Edit 5: Biostar uses ALC898 in high end boards and ALC892 in low end boards.
Asrock uses ALC1150 in high end boards and ALC892 in low end boards. Except for one board with creative soundcore 3D: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157377
MSI uses ALC1150 in high end boards and ALC892 or ALC887 in low end boards.
Gigabyte uses ALC898 on high end boards and ALC892 on low end boards except these two boards which use soundcore 3D:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128604
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128595
Asus uses supremefx or alc1150 in high end boards and alc892 or alc887 in low end boards.

I would probably recommend that you get a cheap z87 board and get a discrete audio card instead.

[Edwii]

Quote:I still have one unanswered question:
NaturalViolence Wrote:
1.I want to know where it goes and what direction it goes to know if this could even work effectively.
2.Also getting enough airflow through the rackmount system could be tricky.

1.It's a pain to get into my attic right now. My dad thinks its closed off to the top. As is, it looks like the air would be routed down into the furnace intake vents in the room below mine. If needed; I don't think it would be very hard to run the hose all the way up the wall into the attic, but if not, the former.
If a these cooling concepts prove poor period, I still like the idea of rack mounting everything and leave it open to the room.

I have drawn up a blueprint of my concept. In the blueprint you will see a main large fan at the bottom, I have many options with it, I could go with one large fan, say 15" or bigger, or I could go with 4 smaller fans.
I drew in some optional fan shelf layers to show that if the main large fan and the extraction fan wouldn't be enough, then additional fans can be placed thru the rack as needed to promote air flow. these layers could have fans stacked horizontally sucking air from the bottom, or vertically sucking additional air from the room into the rack.

Quote:3. The encryption your provider uses is on the cable line. Not the HDMI output.
HDMI does have a standard encryption system called HDCP (high bandwidth digital content protection) that can be enabled/disabled by the source device.
The cable box might just be turning it on when it detects an HD channel.
4. How old is the cable set top box and what model is it?
The capture card cannot decrypt HDCP. So check if the cable box is providing an hdcp signal.
5.Could you take some readings with task manager for me the next time you do this?
6.Have you tried using component input instead of hdmi?
7.Does your STP (set top box) support HD resolutions over component?

3.If the cable box can disable the HDCP, I wouldn't know how to toggle it, I don't think the provider wants us messing with the advanced settings, and thus keeps us in the dark.
4.Around 3 years old, here is a link to the manufacture's manual: http://www.pace.com/documents/manuals/dc758d_manual.pdf
5.I play the card thru Media Player Classic HC, and when it's running the task manager reads MPCHC.exe running at 4-7cpu and 46,000k and seems like it adds about 10-15% pc usage.
6.It's been a couple years since I gave up in frustration, but I believe I've tried component with no luck, tho i used wii in component, and I think it worked, at least on some level of signal.
7. 99% sure it does.
*to be honest, nothing would make me happier then to get the cable boxing doing it's thing in HD, however, my current set up is extremely hard to play with right now, even fragile. It may be best not to screw around with it too much till the full over hall starts. that said I am willing to try things if they look promising to start with.

PSU:

Quote:1. How often was it on?
2. How often was it running stressful software?
3. How much power does it use under load (use a power calculator like the one I showed you earlier, or at least I think I showed you one earlier)?

1+2. Yesterday for example, it was off since the night before, and then booted it up and jumped right into a game "Payday 2" after about 15-20mins of play, shut down, 15mins again of play then shut down, then gave up and just surfed the web for 3or 4 hours with out a problem before going to bed.
Today booted it up, left it idel for around an hour or two, then started the game again, played solid for around 2 hours no problems, and it's been on with just Firefox and teamspeak since then with out a problem for the last 7hours.
3. not sure if you did or not, I used this:" http://www.extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine " and it said:
"Minimum PSU Wattage: 340 Watts -Recommended Wattage: 390 Watts"
Don't know if that's what you wanted to know or not.

Quote:Sonic rader?

I like the idea for myself for when I want to play quietly at night and still be able to see where sounds are coming from. Not critical but kinda cool.

Quote:1.A lot of motherboard manufacturers are beginning to do this with their higher end boards. Including asus, asrock, gigabyte, msi, and biostar.
2.Well the first thing you have to decide is if you want to use high end integrated audio (realtek ALC1150, x-fi MB 3, or supreme fx) or a sound card (asus xonar, ht omega claro, or creative labs z series).

1.I see. When I tried searching for Z87 boards + headphone or amp, only gigabyte popped up, It seems like not an easy feature to look for online.
2.After consideration I have come to the conclustion that sound priortiy should be give to the A/V receiver. Anything thing that can support it well will be able to play enough of a analog single that I could boost with a headphone amp in the worst case(a headphone amp seems like something I would use forever upose to a sound card that gets dated).
•on that note, I think a high-end on-board may be the better value in the over all build, tho I don't know much difference between the (alc1150, x-fi, or supreme fx) when it comes to supporting a A/V unit well.
•on that note I will say again that I sware I get better 5.1 sound from DolbyLive over DTS, I don't know if thats cause of my current sound card or the amp or both. I guess I'm saying is it would be best to have both options if that matters these days.
•I am fine with buying a separate sound card too if that proves to be the better option/value.
◘EDIT: Something I thought I might ask: I will be porting my sound via HDMI cable, how does one send digital audio to the GPU these days? wire bridge? bios setting?

Quote:Nope. All z87 boards are compatible with SLI. The only other issues are power, space and cooling. Your PSU will be strong enough to handle it. Your case is likely big enough to handle it. Although the extra heat might be an issue for you. SLI rigs put out A LOT of heat.

I was refering to how some borads have 3.0 x16 single and there second slot can be weird like 2.0 x4, in other words not being able to give dual x8; if that matters much to me?

Quote:Well your definition of affordable is a lot higher than most. I certainly couldn't afford any of this stuff.
Most people would shit themselves if I told them to spend $1,500 on a desktop computer.
Hell most people here refuse to pay $500 to make their system fast enough for dolphin because it's too expensive.

$1500 for me is more then a month's income. I have super low over head living at home that helps but I still have to be careful.
I justify spending as much as I am because, really, the only physical object I use more then my computer is probably my bed or couch. I don't drive my car, ride my bike, or really anything compared to it.
$1500 or less over the next 4-6 years seems like a good investment to me, If I was busier, had more responsibility, I probably would be more conservative. Even now I feel a bit guilty spending this much.

Looks like we're getting ever close to what the final build could look like, I can't thank you enough for walking me thru all this.
*Man, no matter how well organized the conversation it takes me a ton of time editing this thing as I reply, like easily 4-5+ hours of time including research. But it pays off! I've been using notepad++ to help keep things clean lol.

[AnyOldName3]

NV, are you sure all Z87 boards support SLI? That wasn't the impression I got when I was researching.

[NaturalViolence]

Edwii Wrote:3.If the cable box can disable the HDCP, I wouldn't know how to toggle it, I don't think the provider wants us messing with the advanced settings, and thus keeps us in the dark.

You misunderstood my post. I'm saying that HDCP is enabled/disabled automatically by the device based on the content or output mode.

Do HD channels simply not work or do they only work when you lower the output resolution in the STB settings?

Edwii Wrote:5.I play the card thru Media Player Classic HC, and when it's running the task manager reads MPCHC.exe running at 4-7cpu and 46,000k and seems like it adds about 10-15% pc usage.

As I suspected the video decoding isn't eating up much resources. What is "pc usage" by the way?

I suspect that this might be an issue with MPC (media player classic) displaying the 30p stream from your channels at 30 Hz by changing the display driver refresh rate mode. Which could be negatively effecting your games while it's running. Try using VLC instead and tell me if that fixed it.

Edwii Wrote:4.Around 3 years old, here is a link to the manufacture's manual: http://www.pace.com/documents/manuals/dc758d_manual.pdf

Edwii Wrote:6.It's been a couple years since I gave up in frustration, but I believe I've tried component with no luck, tho i used wii in component, and I think it worked, at least on some level of signal.

While it doesn't say it directly but it's implied that up to 1080p is supported over component. It confirms that HDCP is used on HDMI and implied that it's only enabled for HD video modes.

Edwii Wrote:*to be honest, nothing would make me happier then to get the cable boxing doing it's thing in HD, however, my current set up is extremely hard to play with right now, even fragile. It may be best not to screw around with it too much till the full over hall starts. that said I am willing to try things if they look promising to start with.

It's important that we understand what's wrong so that we know how to fix it and if we need to buy something else for your new rig.

If we can't get this fixed you might need to see if your provider supports ceton cable cards. They're very expensive but they will allow your PC to capture and record encrypted cable channels directly (and up to 4 channels simultaneously). You certainly have the money.

Edwii Wrote:3. not sure if you did or not, I used this:" http://www.extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine " and it said:
"Minimum PSU Wattage: 340 Watts -Recommended Wattage: 390 Watts"
Don't know if that's what you wanted to know or not.

Yes that's exactly what I wanted to know. Looks like it was just a crappy unit.

Edwii Wrote:I was refering to how some borads have 3.0 x16 single and there second slot can be weird like 2.0 x4, in other words not being able to give dual x8; if that matters much to me?

Nope. You'll get the same performance with x16/x16 as you will with x16/x8. There is no way to get dual x16 with Intel cpus unless you spend crazy amounts of cash on a sandy bridge-E rig. Only the LGA2011 platform supports it. Z87 does not.

Pretty much all Z87 boards have 3 pci-e x16 slots. The first one runs in x16 3.0 mode. The second runs in x8 3.0 mode. And the third runs in x4 2.0 mode.

Edwii Wrote:*Man, no matter how well organized the conversation it takes me a ton of time editing this thing as I reply, like easily 4-5+ hours of time including research. But it pays off! I've been using notepad++ to help keep things clean lol.

I use the save draft feature of the forum and work on them a bit at a time. 4-5 hours is crazy though. I think the most I've probably ever spent on one post is 30-60 minutes and that's with research of course.

Edwii Wrote:1.I see. When I tried searching for Z87 boards + headphone or amp, only gigabyte popped up, It seems like not an easy feature to look for online.

Most midrange and high end audio cards have headphone amps these days. High end integrated audio (realtek ALC1150, asus supremefx, creative soundcore 3d) also have headphone amps.

Edwii Wrote:2.After consideration I have come to the conclustion that sound priortiy should be give to the A/V receiver. Anything thing that can support it well will be able to play enough of a analog single that I could boost with a headphone amp in the worst case(a headphone amp seems like something I would use forever upose to a sound card that gets dated).

An audio card is just as future proof as a usb or trs headphone amp. An analog headphone amp won't give you anywhere near the sound quality of a decent audio card. Plus most midrange and high end audio cards have built in headphone amps these days.

I would recommend a usb audio card instead of a headphone amp if you're worried about portability or future proofing. It kills 2 birds with one stone.

Also see below.

Edwii Wrote:•on that note, I think a high-end on-board may be the better value in the over all build, tho I don't know much difference between the (alc1150, x-fi, or supreme fx) when it comes to supporting a A/V unit well.

As I mentioned earlier, none. The audio chipset has absolutely no effect on the sound quality, features, or connectivity of the a/v receiver. All modern integrated audio chipsets support optical spdif and hdmi so you'll have no problems connecting the a/v receiver. And since the a/v receiver will be doing all the processing and the audio chipset will just be doing passthrough the features and quality of the audio chipset won't matter.

Edwii Wrote:•on that note I will say again that I sware I get better 5.1 sound from DolbyLive over DTS, I don't know if thats cause of my current sound card or the amp or both. I guess I'm saying is it would be best to have both options if that matters these days.

Everyone has different sound preferences. You just like how ac3 (dolby digital) sounds better than dts.

You'll be using hdmi instead of spdif. You can send multichannel LPCM through HDMI so there is no need for dolby live or dts connect.

Edwii Wrote:•I am fine with buying a separate sound card too if that proves to be the better option/value.

If you really care about headphone sound quality I think it would. Speaking of which what headphones are you going to be using with this thing?

Edwii Wrote:◘EDIT: Something I thought I might ask: I will be porting my sound via HDMI cable, how does one send digital audio to the GPU these days? wire bridge? bios setting?

Passthrough isn't needed anymore. The graphics card will be seen as both an audio output device and a video output device by the OS. Connect your a/v receiver to the graphics card via hdmi and select hdmi as your sound device in windows sound settings (it will likely do this for you automatically once it detects that the receiver is plugged in). The OS will then send any digital audio output to the graphics card via the pci-e bus. The graphics card will then pass it through to the a/v receiver via hdmi.

Edwii Wrote:$1500 or less over the next 4-6 years seems like a good investment to me, If I was busier, had more responsibility, I probably would be more conservative. Even now I feel a bit guilty spending this much.

I would advise against not upgrading your hardware for that long no matter how much you spend. Think back to my earlier comments about how spending more money doesn't necessarily make your rig any more future proof since technology in this field advances so quickly.

AnyOldName3 Wrote:NV, are you sure all Z87 boards support SLI? That wasn't the impression I got when I was researching.

I don't know of any z87 boards that don't support sli. And the chipset supports it so any motherboard based on that chipset should support it. But if you think I'm wrong you're welcome to find me one that doesn't. Google is turning up nothing for me.