IR looks amazing and still gives decent AA for me. I play with 6xIR and I need it, otherwise the texture packs for SMG2 and the like look terrible. If you have the power the best IR is definitely not 3x.
Anti Aliasing vs Internal Resolution
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Smashbro29 Wrote:So... final verdict? Unfortunately, there won't really be a final verdict on this... Objectively, the internal resolution scaling doesn't have a good downsampling filter, and aliasing will always be there no matter how high the internal resolution goes. Setting the internal resolution to match your screen and using SSAA is the only way to get rid of ALL aliasing. I've done a lot of testing to confirm that (after delroth yelled at me for giving him higher IR screenshots, I was fooled too...). I've created a loooot of screenshots since then and handled screenshot curation for the mainsite, so I have studied this issue. However... subjectively, raising the IR eliminates enough aliasing to be "good enough" for a lot of people, and people are going to be fooled by that. Of course extremely high internal resolutions are more taxing on the computer than SSAA and it still has aliasing and even FXAA would give better results, but... *shrug*. All that can be done is to try to inform them. AMD Threadripper Pro 5975WX PBO+200 | Asrock WRX80 Creator | NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 FE | 64GB DDR4-3600 Octo-Channel | Windows 11 23H1 | (details)
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Regarding getting those huge 8K textures they have to look decent. 3xIR is very messy with large res texture packs and certain ground textures. It doesn't filter well at all. I agree get the downsampling filter though. We definitely need it.
Games look a lot better in 6xIR to me but I also use 4xMSAA. Definitely quite a difference from 3xIR.
I'm going to try to cut through some of the subjectivity a bit. Since I've done a loooot of analysis on this subject, I'll give everyone a little tidbit! Here is a picture from Brawl zoomed in 2x in nearest neighbor so everyone can see the pixels. It's 8x native and 4x native with SSAA because my screen is a 1440p monitor (thanks to HdkR ); consider this equivalent to a 3x native with SSAA and 6x native comparison.
At first glance the 8x Native shot looks antialiased, but look closer and you can see all kinds of aliasing artifacts. Also note that it's not very even, some areas have decent antialiasing, and some are full on hard aliasing, while most is something inbetween the two. This is caused of course, by the poor downsampling that Dolphin is doing. Compare that to the 4x Native + SSAA shot, and what a difference! And no matter what element is on screen, whether it is intersecting or a 2D texture, all of it is blended perfectly. That's the power of SSAA and it's great downsampling! And, btw, just so we are clear, internal resolutions and SSAA have a different measurement scheme, so both of these images are 8x Native (it's 4x2=8, not 4x4=16). They are running at the same resolution, so ALL of the visual differences here are because of the superior downsampler and sample grid of SSAA! khronikos Wrote:Regarding getting those huge 8K textures they have to look decent. 3xIR is very messy with large res texture packs and certain ground textures. It doesn't filter well at all. I agree get the downsampling filter though. We definitely need it. If textures are looking bad, then it's the fault of the texture pack creator for not using mipmaps! The new custom textures system has built in support for mipmaps that really help with this. AMD Threadripper Pro 5975WX PBO+200 | Asrock WRX80 Creator | NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 FE | 64GB DDR4-3600 Octo-Channel | Windows 11 23H1 | (details)
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07-27-2015, 07:02 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-27-2015, 07:08 PM by masterotaku.)
MaJoR, did you try the downsampling filter option in the Ishiiruka builds? 5xIR and 6xIR look great with it without any kind of antialiasing. And with 2xMSAA it's even better. I can provide screenshots in 8 hours.
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GPU: GAINWARD GeForce GTX 1080 Phoenix "GLH" RAM: G.SKILL Ripjaws X DDR3 16GB 1600MHz CL7 OS: Windows 7 Ultimate x64 (07-27-2015, 07:02 PM)masterotaku Wrote: MaJoR, did you try the downsampling filter option in the Ishiiruka builds? 5xIR and 6xIR look great with it without any kind of antialiasing. And with 2xMSAA it's even better. I can provide screenshots in 8 hours. Yeah I should say I can only use Ishii not regular or stuttering is too much for me. And SSAA is pretty costly is it not? The guy doing mario did talk about the pack. I wasn't sure about the mip maps or if they were going to get put in. I thought some of it was because of resolution alone though not sure.
I used master, because this is the Dolphin forums and it's oriented toward master... And I wasn't talking to Khronikos directly, just so we are clear. I was speaking more generally toward the topic as a continuation of my previous post (I would have posted it as an edit if Khronikos hadn't posted his reply during my researching...)
Obviously, adding a downsampling filter would help! But SSAA would still look better, because it does more than just downsample. SSAA uses a jittered and rotational sample grids; it's part of why the quality is so excellent. SSAA is as slow as it is because it does everything it can to get the best picture; to get a picture as good as SSAA, you'd have to do everything SSAA does. And by that point it would be just as expensive as SSAA - and be SSAA! Anyway, I'm not saying that higher IRs are unacceptable and no one should ever use them. They are perfectly fine! Both MSAA and FXAA have a lot of good applications too, and I usually use one of those when running Dolphin because SSAA is so demanding. But raising the internal resolution and turning on SSAA are not the same thing and have very different results! That's what I'm trying to clarify. On a side note... I really wish tino would try to bring more of these toys to master. Some of the things he does the devs do not agree with, but everyone wants some sort of proper downsampling filter! It would be very welcome in master. Khronikos Wrote:The guy doing mario did talk about the pack. I wasn't sure about the mip maps or if they were going to get put in. I thought some of it was because of resolution alone though not sure. If you create high resolution textures without mipmapping they become extremely sharp at distance - aliasing. Mipmaps (copies of the texture at many smaller sizes) exist to solve that problem, and not only do they do so without overhead, they improve performance! It's the industry standard method of solving this problem, and GPUs have built in support for mipmaps. AMD Threadripper Pro 5975WX PBO+200 | Asrock WRX80 Creator | NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 FE | 64GB DDR4-3600 Octo-Channel | Windows 11 23H1 | (details)
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(07-27-2015, 08:37 PM)MaJoR Wrote: Obviously, adding a downsampling filter would help! But SSAA would still look better, because it does more than just downsample. SSAA uses a jittered and rotational sample grids; it's part of why the quality is so excellent. Guess what? Ishiiruka's scaling filter already uses a *rotated grid pattern* for downsampling, so it's comparable to real SSAA. That's why 6xIR (@1080p) looks so good. If you disable that filter, you have the same image quality as master (some parts are smoothed out properly, some have lots of jagged edges). (07-27-2015, 08:37 PM)MaJoR Wrote: I really wish tino would try to bring more of these features to master. Some of the things he does the devs do not agree with, but everyone wants some sort of proper downsampling filter! He did port the scaled partial texture updates The downsampling filter still needs work (image quality / performance optimizations, more options, different grid patterns, etc.). 07-29-2015, 03:14 AM
Dolphin doesn't have a downsampling filter. By setting crazy IRs all you're doing is stressing your GPU for no reason.
Use SSAA until we get a downsampling filter. Next! 07-29-2015, 11:04 AM
There is a downsampling filter (so 3x IR looks worse than 6x on a 1080p screen), it's just a fairly basic one, so gives poor results. (Technically even nearest neighbour is a downsampling filter even though it would do what some people would call 'nothing'.)
I remember back in the day when NaturalViolence kept complaining about Neobrain ruining the AA filter, and we were encouraging people to ignore AA in favour of IR. I'm not exactly sure when this was remedied.
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