Amd 4200G vs intel i3 7350k

[Karmeck]

So I want to build a pc with no gpu and completely depend on the integrated gpu. This is to emulate gc and wii. Smash bros on both consoles. Wario land shake it and Wario world. Mario sunshine and New super mario bros.
Most videos on Youtube either use an older cpu to demonstrate performance or have a dedicated gpu.

my shoppinglist so far:
https://www.prisjakt.nu/list.php?l=3581475&view=l

My rather unusual situation is though that I want this to run at nothing more then 1x if not lower. I'm gonna output this to a Crt monitor were resolution is of an lesser importens for clarity. This is today an 19 inch monitor but will in the future hopefully be upgraded to a 21 inch. I appreciate right now that we don't talk about widescreen and wii games on a 4:3 screen, thank you. God forbid I convert to a widescreen in the future, this is the screen I use now and I'm building for that.

Most discussions here stop at the intel g4560 and I found no talks about the i3 7350k (found it for 60$, used) and most i3 threads I find are for laptops.

Now I understand that a gpu can help, but as mention earlier I wont use high resolution. But you still have me shaken up when that seems to be what everyone suggest when lack of performance is discussed.

That is when I found the suggestion to wait for the amd 4200g with vega. Now this cpu(apu?) is not out yet so kinda hard to talk about.

So while we wait for the reviews to come out (februari 12), how will the i3 7350k perform at stock speeds, in the games above?

[Nintendo Maniac 64]

Just a heads up, it the AMD Ryzen 2400G, not 4200G.


The i3-7350k was largely considered a "worthless" CPU, but emulators like Dolphin are one place where it actually makes sense and is extremely likely to be faster CPU-wise than the AMD Ryzen 2400G.

GPU-wise I'm no expert on modern Intel integrated graphics, but it should be more than enough to run games at 1x IR and 4x AF (which would visually match the GameCube and Wii), however I've no idea on its capabilities on running Ubershaders (which would likely run considerably better on the 2400g).

Also I believe that Dolphin does not support the anti-flicker filter that many games used as a sort of cheap anti-aliasing, so that combined with your use of an actual PC CRT monitor (which tend to be crisper than CRT SDTVs) may very well mean that you'll end up with worse aliasing than an actual GameCube or Wii actually exhibited. Therefore, even when running your CRT at something like 640x480, you may actually want to either increase the internal resolution or increase the anti-aliasing and/or anisotropic filtering anyway, all of which will increase the GPU load but I've no idea how much would be too much for the i3 iGPU.

One thing to keep in mind regardless is that fast dual-channel RAM can improve integrated graphics performance, and since anti-aliasing usually taxes video memory, I would imagine that higher bandwidth DDR4 would also help in that case.

[JosJuice]

(02-11-2018, 08:21 PM)Nintendo Maniac 64 Wrote: Also I believe that Dolphin does not support the anti-flicker filter that many games used as a sort of cheap anti-aliasing, so that combined with your use of an actual PC CRT monitor (which tend to be crisper than CRT SDTVs) may very well mean that you'll end up with worse aliasing than an actual GameCube or Wii actually exhibited.

There's actually a PR opened yesterday that implements it

[Karmeck]

(02-11-2018, 08:21 PM)Nintendo Maniac 64 Wrote: Just a heads up, it the AMD Ryzen 2400G, not 4200G.


The i3-7350k was largely considered a "worthless" CPU, but emulators like Dolphin are one place where it actually makes sense and is extremely likely to be faster CPU-wise than the AMD Ryzen 2400G.

GPU-wise I'm no expert on modern Intel integrated graphics, but it should be more than enough to run games at 1x IR and 4x AF (which would visually match the GameCube and Wii), however I've no idea on its capabilities on running Ubershaders (which would likely run considerably better on the 2400g).

Also I believe that Dolphin does not support the anti-flicker filter that many games used as a sort of cheap anti-aliasing, so that combined with your use of an actual PC CRT monitor (which tend to be crisper than CRT SDTVs) may very well mean that you'll end up with worse aliasing than an actual GameCube or Wii actually exhibited.  Therefore, even when running your CRT at something like 640x480, you may actually want to either increase the internal resolution or increase the anti-aliasing and/or anisotropic filtering anyway, all of which will increase the GPU load but I've no idea how much would be too much for the i3 iGPU.

One thing to keep in mind regardless is that fast dual-channel RAM can improve integrated graphics performance, and since anti-aliasing usually taxes video memory, I would imagine that higher bandwidth DDR4 would also help in that case.

regarding ram, seems the i3 7350k max out at 2400mhz so the one I selected in the link above seem fitting for the task at hand. Just read up on ubershaders and it seems hybridshaders was crated for igpu so we see how that goes. 

[Karmeck]

And the first tests are in
https://youtu.be/PrRvBWZ1AFA

Theres even a few to be found here.
http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i3-7350K-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-2400G/3889vsm433194

[Nintendo Maniac 64]

Those are typical PC performance tests, not emulation performance tests.

As an example, the performance difference between Ivy Bridge, Haswell, and Ryzen in emulation is quite a bit different than their performance difference in typical PC tests, so we cannot rely on such typical PC performance tests to determine the performance in emulators.

[sirdaniel]

Intel i3 7350k is a good processor, it will suit your needs. X1 resolution is absurdly low demanding, but still, integrated GPu is HD 630 which is quite capable. You will find this cpu pleasant at 2x resolution.


Important thing: use dual channel RAM like 2x4GB, dch increases gpu processing power quite a bit. So low latency high Mhz RAM properties are as important as CPU itself in case of igpu

[TKSilver]

The 7350k is a much faster CPU then any Pentium we recomend from the Kaby lake line and if you can get it cheaper the the G4620 which shares the same 630 graphics then that is a good thing (well assuming it works).

In emulation where pure single core performance is still king, it is hard to beat a recent intel processor excetpt with a better (and probably kore recent intel processor). For multi threading (which is important for pretty much everything else) it is getting closer and closer. So if you want to purely use the system for emulation then the 630 is good enough generally amd the 7350k's pure ipc is hard to beat. If you want to do any native PC gaming or well almost anything else, then the 2400g is probably the more generally useful all around option and much better for certain tasks like native pc gaming.

[Karmeck]

(02-12-2018, 05:14 PM)sirdaniel Wrote: Intel i3 7350k is a good processor, it will suit your needs. X1 resolution is absurdly low demanding, but still, integrated GPu is HD 630 which is quite capable. You will find this cpu pleasant at 2x resolution.


Important thing: use dual channel RAM like 2x4GB, dch increases gpu processing power quite a bit. So low latency high Mhz RAM properties are as important as CPU itself in case of igpu

(02-12-2018, 05:29 PM)TKSilver Wrote: The 7350k is a much faster CPU then any Pentium we recomend from the Kaby lake line and if you can get it cheaper the the G4620 which shares the same 630 graphics then that is a good thing (well assuming it works).

In emulation where pure single core performance is still king, it is hard to beat a recent intel processor excetpt with a better (and probably kore recent intel processor). For multi threading (which is important for pretty much everything else) it is getting closer and closer. So if you want to purely use the system for emulation then the 630 is good enough generally amd the 7350k's pure ipc is hard to beat. If you want to do any native PC gaming or well almost anything else, then the 2400g is probably the more generally useful all around option and much better for certain tasks like native pc gaming.

Thank you both. Now though we have an other issue. From what I have read on this forum, to overclok the I3 7350k you need a motherboard from the z line of chip sets. Have I understood this correctly?

Taking this in to account I have updated my shopping list:
https://www.prisjakt.nu/list.php?l=3581475

[Helios]

(02-13-2018, 02:23 AM)Karmeck Wrote: to overclok the I3 7350k you need a motherboard from the z line of chip sets. Have I understood this correctly?

Yes.